0:06 Speaker 1: So, welcome everybody to our next podcast on power. Speaker 1: This time we're going be talking about something called the hundred and fifty percent principle. Speaker 1: so Paul maybe you can introduce topic today? Speaker 0: Yeah thank you Vinay. Speaker 0: well this is a principal which can be frankly very difficult put in place but Like a life changer like a game-changer for the relationships where we have a power difference or a Power differential between us and the other person.

0:43 Speaker 0: it basically says That if you are the person that has more rank than the other person. Speaker 0: So for instance, your teacher and their student You're a boss or manager Theyre the reportee Your parent The child. Speaker 0: Then guess what? Speaker 0: You take one hundred and fifty percent of responsibility For ongoing health And clarity. Speaker 0: hundred and fifty percent. Speaker 0: That's what works in practice, that's an audacious claim Vinay like it runs directly across we would normally say is everyone shares equal responsibility for the health of their relationship?

1:30 Speaker 0: And sure! Speaker 0: But its completely overlooks effective power on relationships actually acknowledges it. Speaker 0: So where did you hear about this, Vinay? Speaker 0: And I mean we've been talking and teaching us for years... Where does that come from? Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 1: well You started with the punchline which is good.

1:56 Speaker 1: Well i first learned at from Cedar Basto who wrote a book called Living in The Power Zone. Speaker 1: She was one of my first recognized as wow! Speaker 1: This woman whose really taken this topic and digested it, written a book about it. Speaker 1: And then of course Julie Diamond who we also both know another major author has talked about this topic. Speaker 1: I think other authors on power have suggested this in the sense people generally kind of in some way understand or that its part of discourse even movie stars and the seduction of women or something, people in power.

2:39 Speaker 1: This is putting a numerical value on it which is useful because as you say talk about taking hundred percent responsibility. Speaker 1: Of course the principle of maturity, it's a principle we could say adulthood. Speaker 1: It is a principle of relationships. Speaker 1: to make them work We need to take one hundred percent responsibility for actions. Speaker 1: But this principle says as you point out with the power differential, whether that be the boss or teacher any kind of rank role.

3:32 Speaker 1: It holds greater responsibility. Speaker 1: so it's more than just I take a hundred percent of responsibilities. Speaker 1: So i guess the question is what does this mean to take one-hundred and fifty percent of the responsibility? Speaker 0: Yeah! Speaker 0: That's it. Speaker 0: What actually means in practice? Speaker 0: if you are leader then have more responsibility the territory of occupying roles with more rank. Speaker 0: You have more access to power, you have more Speaker 0: responsibility.".

4:04 Speaker 0: So what does it mean exactly? Speaker 0: Here's a couple things that means to me... I was working within Leader not so long ago when we were discussing this and i noticed this particular leader doing something for their team And this particular leader, for instance took long pauses after people speaking. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: People were sort of wondering what it is that they were meaning and you know... They would pause in there. Speaker 0: go like that! Speaker 0: Then say something then be a ponderous moment.

4:37 Speaker 0: What I mentioned to the leader was hey You've got to explain your behaviour. Speaker 0: you've got a responsibility to bring an interpretation about what your, how you're behaving and how others might interpret it because they are watching more carefully than their watch each other. Speaker 0: And deriving lots of stories out from long ponderous gaps some going into doubt whether something silly or worthy maybe super important. Speaker 0: actually in most cases after speaking with the leader none is true.

5:14 Speaker 0: But so you've got to explain more fully the intent. Speaker 0: You have in the behavior that you Have. Speaker 0: don't leave it up for grabs. Speaker 0: That's taking a hundred and fifty percent of the responsibility, you've gotta explain More about how your behaving. Speaker 0: why? Speaker 0: Your behaving in The way you have the Intent behind what you're behaving because people are going To be building stories And narratives out there. Speaker 0: What do you think? Speaker 0: yet?

5:39 Speaker 1: Mmm, that's right and it is interesting because usually if someone in a position of power They feel like they have to explain themselves less, you know? Speaker 1: Like there's some privilege has to go with the role and why should I make it so... Why should do all this work. Speaker 1: It is a job of people listening for me figure out what i want And that my style..I like to pause. Speaker 1: So ,why should I adjust that? Speaker 1: That sort works against this one hundred fifty percent principle we are talking about Speaker 0: Spot on.

6:14 Speaker 0: Yeah, I really love it that you've named that because i was thinking when You said about another CEO in this case? Speaker 0: So is coaching a little some time ago but not so far. Speaker 0: That I don't remember very clearly Because she had a tendency to come up with all sorts of ideas And so When A problem came Up In a meeting She'd go well we could do This We Could Do That the other and It wasn't Until Some Time Into Working with this team that she realized it. Speaker 0: when She started to speak about well we really could do This or We Could Do That.

6:48 Speaker 0: the People were Taking It as an Instruction. Speaker 0: I mean people Were Going out and Doing all sorts of Work When, she Would just Mention in Passing something About you know what it is because? Speaker 0: She was a great big Ideas Generator. Speaker 0: so she had A Responsibility To say hey i should Just let You Know Something. Speaker 0: I'm An Ideas Person And i think And I'm also an extrovert, so i'm thinking while im talking. Speaker 0: I generate options. Speaker 0: So that means That you're going to hear a lot of those and it doesn't mean they are for action all the time.

7:23 Speaker 0: Sometimes this is just me thinking out loud a responsibility to explain her personality typing and the way she likes to work in groups. Speaker 0: So because otherwise, She was just being misinterpreted And-and she had a responsibility To step in and do that More than anybody else In The room more Than Anybody Else In The Room. Speaker 0: so That's you know? Speaker 0: That's what Was really critical. Speaker 1: yeah Yeah I think this brings up something thats related very tightly to this hundred and fifty percent principle, which is the issue of impact because there's a cost intention.

8:03 Speaker 1: And you know generally people have good intentions interpersonally or in a work sense and they certainly claim those good intentions. Speaker 1: The hundred-and-fifty percent principal though it was paying attention to impact Which is a difficult thing? Speaker 1: Because if If most of us are confronted with something that we do, you know... ...that someone's upset about will jump to intention. Speaker 1: Well I didn't intend to do that. Speaker 1: what i thought was doing is this and when it comes the differentiation of rank This issue impact particularly important because again Part of the nature, a role like that with more power is we're actually less aware of impact.

8:45 Speaker 1: We don't realise these words or ideas we generate. Speaker 1: in this case as CEO... ...we really do not get what they have. Speaker 1: I'm just generating ideas because it's responsible for other people to take some of those ideas and understand them in context. Speaker 1: The responsibility gets put back on staff Whereas what we're talking about is part of the responsibility, or role in power to be aware of exactly that I'm having. Speaker 1: To pay attention and to feel some responsibility.

9:26 Speaker 1: That's a hundred fifty percent thing! Speaker 0: Oh, wow. Speaker 0: Yes and that leads me to the next thing that I believe comes with this hundred fifty percent principle Vinay And That is This If you are going To Own The Increased Responsibility That You Have In To Sustain A Healthy Productive Relationship in Power Differentialed Relationships Then You Must Ask About Your Impact.

10:16 Speaker 0: The issue of impact is so important, and it leads me to this piece of advice. Speaker 0: Leaders must ask for feedback. Speaker 0: It is the responsibility of them as an expression of a hundred-and fifty percent principle because they will not see clearly their.

10:42 Speaker 0: The higher your rank compared to others, the more challenging it is. Speaker 0: To see the impact you're having and although You don't know that's what going on?

10:58 Speaker 0: you must ask for feedback. Speaker 0: And that's one of the reasons why, for so many leaders over the years I have insisted in coaching they do a three-sixty feed back or interview people around them and create a report. Speaker 0: it is because they will not know their impact as well. Speaker 0: They are responsible to determine their impact but also take initiative to request feedback. Speaker 0: And in a business setting, that's often done best by having some other third party get that feedback either through a three sixty tool or through interviews.

11:39 Speaker 0: and so That's why I love what you your point there about understanding impact and i want to let You know leaders will be less accurate at reading their import Reading the impact? Speaker 0: I should say just By nature of being elevated. Speaker 0: we're going To talk more About this when We Talk paradox in another episode. Speaker 0: But it's a mind twisting, mind bending experience to be elevated into positions of rank. Speaker 0: And one of the difficulties that is created by that –the mind-bending nature being elevated–is that we…it's extremely difficult to read our impact accurately.

12:16 Speaker 1: That's right and you know I think people understand from their own experiences that being in position with less power generally feels less safe. Speaker 1: You know your job could be on line or promotion whatever And so it's not always safe to give feedback and sometimes when you do, its not always received. Speaker 1: So well I've experienced that myself giving some feedback To a person with some power over me and they did not receive at. Speaker 1: Well i mean They appeared to receive but well But then subsequently there was quite A consequence for me.

12:49 Speaker 1: You know people are reluctant to Give feedback and thats also. Speaker 1: the hundred and fifty percent principle is that leaders need to make it safe-to-give feedback, but there's not some you know bad repercussions. Speaker 1: That's why the three sixty thing works because its a third party and procedure so little more formal. Speaker 1: But really what we're talking about Is going beyond that? Speaker 1: And at the leader is open and willing and proactive in seeking feedback which probably not that usual, you know.

13:23 Speaker 1: So we're talking about something which in a way goes against the grain or seems almost counter-intuitive when you are on leadership position? Speaker 0: Yes it is really humbling thing to say hey how am I being experienced by YOU? Speaker 0: You know like... How did you find me at that meeting? Speaker 0: Or do think i was too harsh or was I dodging the issue? Speaker 0: It is a humbling thing to ask someone about just how you performed. Speaker 0: Let's Speaker 1: face it, really happen that much?

14:02 Speaker 1: it's not a thing but usually your boss is going to do. Speaker 1: i mean normally an employee would sort of fall over backwards if her boss asked them for that kind of feedback. Speaker 1: yes kind of humility isn't doesn't really usually go with the job or even the personality of a big leader? Speaker 0: yeah no it doesn't. Speaker 0: But, what we're yearning for Vinay? Speaker 0: We are yearning to find leaders who combined their rank with humility. Speaker 0: You know, we're... Who combine there rank with the discipline of asking for feedback?

14:34 Speaker 0: because they know that going to be an unreliable reader of it and so takes special effort. Speaker 1: So there's like a cognitive component of this which is a principle, the hundred and fifty percent principle that we're explaining And we explain the rationale. Speaker 1: I will be talking bit more about how to do it. Speaker 1: The emotional side of it We could say Is very difficult and requires not just sort you know, virtue of humility it actually requires someone to be willing too.

15:13 Speaker 1: To be kind of a little transparent something usually also that doesn't go with the position or power and to have basically enact their role With level of care and concern for others around them. Speaker 1: That is almost personal in a way like oh How did that affect you? Speaker 1: You know, That's almost like a personal question and usually someone in the role of power doesn't expect to have to check it out. Speaker 1: They expect people to adjust. Speaker 1: I mean...I do lot work on China And Chinese boss will often say your feelings are no relevance for me.

15:51 Speaker 1: I'm interested in your productivity and output, fulfilling role duties.

16:00 Speaker 1: That's a very common attitude. Speaker 1: to reverse that attitude into the leader I think takes a great deal. Speaker 1: What we're trying to do in this podcast and by having these conversations, working with people in positions of power is influence them to help them realize that they need to shift quite significantly into their attitude or behaviour as emotional softening. Speaker 1: so whatever care for the business has manifested I actually need to care about how i come across.

16:40 Speaker 0: Yes, isn't that there's such a depth? Speaker 0: To what you've just said because in a way on the surface it's true What another person feels is not something I can control directly. Speaker 0: It's not exactly my problem. Speaker 0: But with a leader who has rank and he has power flowing through their role. Speaker 0: The perception of how they're being experienced is absolutely critical, you know? Speaker 0: And I had a leader say to me...I'm not so long ago Paul! Speaker 0: You know i'm interested in facts and that's not a fact, your feelings are the effect..and I said here's the fact.

17:26 Speaker 0: Your perception is that you're intimidating Here's the fact that you do not ask for input. Speaker 0: He is The fact that they experience you as coming into conversations and Giving a solution early in closing it down, but the fact Is? Speaker 0: They perceive You In That Way And While They Perceive You in That Way They're Going to behave in A way Which Is Entirely Counter To How You Need Them To Behave. Speaker 0: So the Fact of how Your Being Perceived is essentially, it's an essential piece of knowledge for a leader.

18:05 Speaker 0: They must ask feedback about how they're being perceived and experienced. Speaker 1: It affects effectiveness. Speaker 1: that's right. Speaker 1: your effectiveness at the leader in a way the nature of their relationship. Speaker 1: And that's certainly something which was revealed from research I did on power, and many of these...I was interviewing middle-level managers not so much as CEO or Executive. Speaker 1: Middle level managers are kind of sandwiched between them but nevertheless they have powered downwards and put all Said to me.

18:38 Speaker 1: every single interviewee and these were people with you know at least five years experience And sometimes ten or twenty year's experience. Speaker 1: They all said yes I can direct People to do what? Speaker 1: I want, and i have the power To Do that but in The end It doesn't work Speaker 0: because Speaker 1: I have to get them on board, basically.

19:03 Speaker 1: Hmm. Speaker 1: Yes, the hundred and fifty Speaker 0: percent principle works because it is effective.

19:31 Speaker 0: It takes into account The lens of power that people are looking to the leader To read the mood. Speaker 0: People are overly vigilant about interpreting the behavior Of leaders. Speaker 0: So the hundred-and-fifty percent principle Is simply effective And not to do so is ineffective, it's absolutely ineffective. Speaker 1: That right! Speaker 1: So hopefully we've established the importance of this principle and said a little bit about that. Speaker 1: I guess you know... The big question once people are willing to consider this as being relevant or something that they might need to take on board, there's a question about how actually do it.

20:15 Speaker 1: And I think the way to do is little different in away power relationship than an interpersonal relationships because of course with our loved ones and people we're friends were we needed be concerned about impact? Speaker 1: you know. Speaker 1: otherwise friendship for intimacy damaged. Speaker 1: But there's a particular kind of way this needs to happen in a vertical relationship and maybe you can say few things about that. Speaker 0: Yeah, I would. Speaker 0: Well i'd like to say something that might help Practically with the leader who needs to take the initiative to repair.

20:51 Speaker 0: And This is such an important Initiative and a practical expression of the hundred fifty percent principle. Speaker 0: So when do you sense? Speaker 0: When you do sense that there is some sort of rupture or some sort a problem, Or maybe some static There's unusual gaps. Speaker 0: So people are behaving around You differently than they usually Are then and use sense That something you've done Has perhaps initiated? Speaker 0: Then here Is the hundred fifty percent principle in practice This is the leader must step In And take The initiative to repair.

21:32 Speaker 0: So I use a particular anachronom, agala, A-G-A-L-A Agala. Speaker 0: it's so...it's just simple. Speaker 0: Agala is the simple principle around which to guide that conversation about taking initiative to repair. Speaker 0: The first day starts for acknowledge. Speaker 0: Acknowledge. Speaker 0: there are feelings on other side that appear have changed That they seem unusually quiet or that they're expressing distress in some way. Speaker 1: Or the passive-aggressive. Speaker 0: All right, all their been passive aggressive.

22:12 Speaker 0: I notice you've said somethings which are quite critical of approach we taking here. Speaker 0: whatever it is acknowledge there's something going on over there and then go to G say A, agala a G is the gap. Speaker 0: Just as you mentioned earlier, there is a gap. Speaker 0: Acknowledge that my intent has been X but it appears my impact has been Y and we have to... That's an incredibly important. Speaker 0: if you like in extension of the acknowledgement acknowledge that your intent has being good because almost certainly But your impact is different to that, and that's an important dynamic to give words too.

23:01 Speaker 0: So there's the acknowledgement... There's a gap. Speaker 0: then the next agala.... The Next Is Make A Simple Apology Speaker 1: Which is very difficult for bosses to do. Speaker 1: Bosses don't usually feel like they've got to apologize to anyone. Speaker 1: That goes against the grain, it's sort of Speaker 0: suggesting Speaker 1: a level of humility which has you know not always Sort of identified with that role and people on this field Like they shouldn't have to apologize. Speaker 1: what me apologize?

23:28 Speaker 1: To an employee that seems outrageous. Speaker 1: so yes should be the other way around. Speaker 1: They're the one you know, resisting or they're the ones that responsibility usually gets put back onto their employees. Speaker 1: So in this case for The Boss to take additional responsibility can seem like almost too much. Speaker 0: Yeah! Speaker 0: This is where we want a combined rank with humility. Speaker 0: This was when have combine ranked with discipline of taking more responsibilities.

24:02 Speaker 0: And so yes, Speaker 1: because I'll come in. Speaker 1: Because you know that is what we're talking about Is? Speaker 1: That We're suggesting that the extra responsibility The responsibility of the role but the extra Responsibility comes with power has a requirement and this requirement as another requirement It's usually recognized. Speaker 1: But their requirement is This kind of humility and willingness to kinda check things out and even recognize it. Speaker 1: Wow You Know i had I had a bad impact here and that's on Speaker 0: me.

24:35 Speaker 0: Yes, exactly!

24:38 Speaker 0: And many leaders will be aware of this backstory they may be holding like yeah... This person is overly sensitive or this person has actually been critical toward before i even started something. Speaker 0: What I'd like to suggest because of the hundred and fifty percent principle is your task here's. Speaker 0: To put that aside for the time being, acknowledge the feelings speak to the gap which by the way speaks to you good intention about the gap between your attention impact then just say i'm sorry that i've had that impact.

25:14 Speaker 0: so in acknowledgement it is something we as followers longed hear our leaders saying. Speaker 0: It's a child As a kid, we really it is. Speaker 0: It is a paradigm shifting worldview shaping experience to have our parent apologize to us because when were young until they apologized. Speaker 0: We don't assume that its then thats made the error and we tend to assume its us And its safer to take on that position because we've just got to keep adjusting, because our parent is the source of life.

25:52 Speaker 0: But when a parent says you know what I just did then was i had an impact where I've scared you Because I raised my voice really abruptly and I'm sorry about Speaker 1: it. Speaker 1: It's not too many people have experience with parents saying this. Speaker 1: but y'know We're pushing into an edge of advanced skill. Speaker 1: Now Paul, I'm just going to say there's a paper or something in the corner that's flicking around. Speaker 1: Oh great! Speaker 1: Yeah...that's right That sort of Speaker 0: flapping.

26:21 Speaker 0: Thank you for that. Speaker 0: Okay thank-you That is good. Speaker 0: So The Apology Is The Most Challenging Part and of course potentially the most powerful. Speaker 0: So that's, so we've got Acknowledge Gap. Speaker 0: Apology L is...so what do you think? Speaker 0: We're learning! Speaker 0: As a leader What am I learning here about us And About The Way We Are Interacting?

26:49 Speaker 0: This takes more from the apology which Kind of a heartfelt thing even have just said briefly to being a little more cognitive. Speaker 0: So what are we learning here? Speaker 0: This is you stepping into your position of leadership around saying this Is What I think We're Learning Here, this is what i'm learning that's the fine That's The L and the last A Agala the Last A is. Speaker 1: ask Speaker 0: is there anything else here that I've missed? Speaker 1: Well, that's an extension of the learning process and I mean yes might have heard.

27:20 Speaker 1: if The Learning Organization you know That well-known book in the concept of an organization. Speaker 1: It's adaptive In a sense that it's always learning something new rather than Always working in the same way. Speaker 1: so it's about the responsibility leader to demonstrate learning in practice. Speaker 1: by adopting this position And asking these kind of questions and really setting the tone because of leader is setting the tone of a learning organization or being a person willing to learn from experience then, of course that's going to go all the way down.

27:53 Speaker 0: Yeah yes it goes to beget itself you know? Speaker 0: It's going properly propagated. Speaker 0: Agala is an audacious ambitious kind-of practice But it is a terrific application of the hundred fifty percent principle because if there's a leader initiating repair initiating restoration reconciliation and Agala gives steps to do that It's not. Speaker 0: It's the handrail hold While addressing topics which are difficult to talk about. Speaker 0: its like you know, so I often say when we're on You know shaky ground like you're on a pair of ice skating.

28:41 Speaker 0: Yeah, but your own ice skating rink and you've got rings you've Got your ice skates on. Speaker 0: this can be what it feels Like to being conversations which are unfamiliar? Speaker 0: And uncertain when you're expressing more humility or vulnerability than you might normally have. Speaker 0: we need our handrail To hold to guide us and these templates help Especially for difficult conversations. Speaker 0: Agala Speaker 1: And you had mentioned to me before we started about the comment your son made, why do I have be a bigger guy?

29:13 Speaker 1: You know i think that's very common question. Speaker 1: Why Do I Have To Be The Bigger Guy? Speaker 1: and if I have an argument with my wife somewhere I'm going say it.

29:28 Speaker 1: pull myself out of this and be the bigger person, why can't she apologize first? Speaker 1: So that happens in interpersonal relationships. Speaker 1: And I think there's even more so. Speaker 1: The case here is Why do you have to be a big guy? Speaker 1: because i guess You are the biggest guy. Speaker 1: yet it's difficult to step into the responsibility That goes with us In terms we're talking about. Speaker 1: We see again To go back to public sphere you know, sexual problems that have happened with people who are usually men in power.

30:00 Speaker 1: You know they kind of... there's often an assumption for instance the term bandit about consenting adults. Speaker 1: well we're two consenting adults and she was up for it as much I was. Speaker 1: but what is missed by people in positions comedians or whoever they are, what they miss is that being in a position of power the notion of two consenting adults is not really correct because The person with one hundred and fifty percent Power it's not just to consenting adult. Speaker 1: It says there's a greater requirement To think about what's going on?

30:44 Speaker 1: To address this situation to see the power differential to notice the impact. Speaker 1: You know, if you've got more power and... And you suggest something then an employee or a student or whatever that role is it's more likely to acquiesce. Speaker 1: It looks like two adults with equal responsibility. Speaker 1: but its not That what we're saying. Speaker 1: I think thats why people in different kinds of powers kind of miss. Speaker 1: they don't realise until its too late. Speaker 0: Well said Well said, they miss it until its too late.

31:20 Speaker 0: Yes there is a disproportional responsibility to determine one's impact and ask for feedback and that goes right to the question of sexual relationships between people with big differential power in their roles. Speaker 0: And it's simply not enough, to say... The other person seemed to say yes when there might be an unusual pressure upon them exploration and inquiry needs to be made. Speaker 1: I guess this is part of what we're trying to do here, some sort of educational process for people who step into roles with greater power.

32:17 Speaker 1: because in a way you know people are given role as manager or they promoted something. Speaker 1: but We've mentioned there's very little preparation for the power nature of their role. Speaker 1: There is very little education on what does this mean? Speaker 1: What do you need to do, how can you fulfill this responsibility not just as a responsibility to guide and lead but a responsibility in these more relational terms that we're talking about? Speaker 1: so The lack understanding this hundred-and fifty percent principle I think it gets people into trouble.

32:48 Speaker 1: So hopefully you know as we introduce this, people become more interested in being increasingly skillful. Speaker 1: then there can be some kind of motivation to learn this before it's too late. Speaker 1: Before the damage is done. Speaker 0: Yes Here here to that That what we want to communicate on a particular podcast. Speaker 0: In many ways its theme will run through The hundred and fifty percent principle practical manifestation of it, but really throughout all these podcasts we're making a Speaker 1: call Speaker 0: that leaders must acknowledge the impact of their power and they must live profoundly examined life to use that power well.

33:35 Speaker 1: Exactly! Speaker 1: And you know this extends not just to leaders or CEOs.

33:43 Speaker 1: We're all in some role of power as a parent, or there's younger people around us. Speaker 1: Whatever the situation is I think most people have an opportunity to recognize where they are at greater rank And even it be, you know a racial issue. Speaker 1: Someone who's got white skin and someone has dark skin. Speaker 1: often unfortunately there is ranking that goes on as part of the sensitivity training which some people are critical in. Speaker 1: yet its fundamentally not about wokeness or something like the kinds of power that we have, because there's many different kinds of powers.

34:24 Speaker 1: And especially talking about organisational power. Speaker 1: but what were talking is also relevant in other situations. Speaker 1: so I want to broaden out audience and a way they can take into account this issue with one hundred fifty percent principle. Speaker 0: Terrific! Speaker 0: Thanks Feney. Speaker 0: well it has been really good talk about this... Always! Speaker 0: ...and i'll see you next time Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 0: Okay, mate. Speaker 0: See ya!